Would like to know if Bombayrc has shut down  , there website is also not working.

yes i heard they are shutting down, dnt know whats the truth,
even heard same for paylessflymore

Prices are a big big issue with most of the online vendors, except a few. Ppl can't buy at great prices when flying fields are few and few hours of flying at any time and scratch built electrics are so easy.

I would surely miss paylessflymore (if they indeed close down). I have seen the best prices with them, be it engines, Phoenix ARF or anything else.

A big loss to our modelling community.

-Gaurav

What's going on? All our hobby shops are closing down...
First winghobbies now this... 

How will they sustain, if we modellers keep sourcing our stuff from HK and Tower and not support them ? Its like a chicken and egg problem. But whatever it is, our community lost these great shops...

Total agree with you.

glad this observation came up
Simple fact the LHS in US grow despite competition from  On Line shops . google any  city for RC Hobby shops and you will find at least 5 -10 of them per city  this is despite the fact the Hobby City is highly patronized  by people from the USA . Take the case of Singapore  can't they buy from Hong Kong etc  but  how many hobby shops do they have  or  a place like Dubai , Qatar etc , these city states have more hobby shops than that in our country  WHY
This is clearly because of the  support and attitude of LHS by the community this is the difference between long term thinking   as against short term gains .


On this very forum there have been case of you very guys buying small order for a $ 20 -30  from abroad  how much are you saving   on these orders  at best around Rs 100/- . Even in the case of $ 100 order what is going to be your saving  a couple of hundred

A bitter truth : take this forum itself  and analyse how much time , space , words etc have been used in the last few months in talking about Hobby City , tower, USPS , UPS  etc   by aero modelers ( members )  and compare it with that spent by members for local hobby shops , how much publicity by users has been given to these oversea's hobby shops and in comparison what has been that done by users for the like of Bombay RC , Payless , Wings etc  for whom you guys are feeling bad about  

I am sure  some of you have  bought from these shops in the recent past  like what you have from Tower or Hobby City  but you have mentioned the later purchases in your experience on the forum at great length  but   is there any mention of your purchase from these or other LHS and the service you got from them .

Please don't get me wrong as usual but being an on the face kind of person I still continue to talk my mind .

But look into yourself  feeling sorry has no meaning here this is the brutal commercial world if a business is not viable  it is better to cut losses  as quickly as possible  and put a cap on the losses .
The businessman concerned has other  avenue for earning  but the community looses  and why was that , the answers are obvious .

Now the business is in its infancy but from a long term point of view if the LHS develop so will the hobby spread  and the  entire  business will grow into an industry , with that growth will come  organizations , lobbying power etc  thus  we will be in a better position to get regulations , laws etc  to suit us .

I am sorry to say this but if this situation continues we might as well start feeling sorry for the hobby itself pretty soon .
Sai

Good point Sai, that there is very little talk about local hobby store experiences.  And like in everything else, if and when people talk, it is about negatives only.

While agreeing with you in general, you need to start posting more of the comparisons of local prices against what it costs to get the item from outside.  I am pretty sure that getting the item in couple of days is a huge attraction, and people will be willing to pay a premium for that (added with the knowledge about the 35% duties you have to pay for importing).

I would also strongly suggest that each LHS operators be strongly active in the community, organizing fun-flys, providing training, etc (even the dreaded ARF building service!).  It is important to be in touch with the pulse of the community, and stock spares for a few of the highest selling (or in-demand) models.

The more knowledgeable and active the LHS owner, the better his business prospects.  I can clearly see why one out of 3 LHSes near me is doing much better than the others, it is due to these factors.

like anwar say be active post every where on the internet blogs forum etc. will certainly increase your sales and one can't expect
us buyers to always support local hobby shops (for various reasons) i'm not saying one should not ! but its not always the best option  
anyways sad to loose two good shops ! by the way even growel hobbies is down, as far as my info goes paylessflymore n growel hobbies are owned by wealthy industrialist i wounder why they closed down    

its some thing different.. for india. india as a country gives very little priority to hobbies at school/college. its all there to mug up from books, may be play a few sports. how many schools teach aeromodelling / making any sort of models like car/ toys etc ? in fact aeromodelling is never on the official agenda except for air sqn NCC. this being the case coupled with our development country status, aeromodelling will remain for the classes not the masses which we require for dev of our hobby. so our aeromodelling stores will remain the way they are till such time they create overseas markets and start shipping outside. his may happen ......  if .....   .  i am waiting for "indian tower hobbies"

Anwar ,
On the Hobby city thread I have clearly stated around 35 % as the duty  total which we pay .
Frankly I simply  have stopped wasting my time trying to convince on this point  as I  don't see the  point in  .

The other factor you might be surprised with is that for  us  the business  contribution  from  the forum members  be it RC India or India RC  is very low  to be even of any significance  .

In fact  of recent you would have noticed my contribution here has dropped significantly because the  topics largely being discussed  actively pertain to overseas purchasing be it hobby shops  or postal service , customs etc hence it is a clash of interest  as far as I am concerned  so I keep off these posts .

I would like to ask a simple question how many hobby shops do you have in Singapore Qatar and Dubai respectively how are they surviving despite having far easier import practices than India ?  and how many do you have in comparison listed on your mega list  and here we are talking of 3 shops closing and I can see at least 2 more on the way .

Sai

may be there is a conspiracy going on >

woow, i know that bombayrc used to supply to rcskyhobby but not sure though !

Sai - The forum is only a small part of the RC crowd, it will always be.  It is evident from the fact that only a small percent of registered users are repeat visitors.  So it is not surprising that the forum does not generate a huge part of your sales.  But the forum helps in other ways.  Look at the response to your garage sale ad.  The folks on the forum are somewhat hardcore, so they can act like the pulse of the community.


That is not a direct comparison.  What offsets the balance in India is the 35% duty, which does not get applied on many items that are directly shipped to the end user.  In other countries, the duty is much less (it is 5% in Qatar), so it is easy for the local stores to compete. The demographics and purchase power of people are also vastly different.

It does not matter to the end user that the government is not strict about implementing the 35% duty on personal imports, he gets a better price.  Who would not like a 35% discount ?  But recent experiences in terms of the hassle with direct imports should open up opportunities for Indian stores.

Here is one simple comparision.

http://cgi.ebay.in/Digital-Voltage-Display-Unit-For-1-6-LIPO-Batteries_W0QQitemZ110328789950QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_203?hash=item19b01bbbbe#ht_1185wt_939

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6589

3 USD = 150 rs + 30 % duty = 200 rs + 50 rs shipping(say with bulk 2 KG order with other items) = 250 from HC. Though many wont even face 10 % duty for personal prodcuts and end up paying APPROXIMATELY 200 rs from HC. For the same price one can get almost 5 pieces from HC rather than getting 2 locally.

If that product was available locally for 320 Rs MAX and free shipped when buying with other items I wouldnt have minded getting it locally.

Unfortunately that comparison does not reflect the actual events on the ground.  Here is an ad for the same item :

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=559800

It is being offered for $8, despite being a classified item. And there is $2 shipping.

And here is a similar item (probably same OEM) offered at Hobbycity itself with a different packaging, at $12.95 :

http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=7367

What you are forgetting is that the same item was on sale at Hobbycity for about double the current price not too long ago. So if the Indian LHS acquired it a while ago, the price would have been much higher.  Yes, you have a low cost option now, but that does mean the LHS is fleecing you.  There are not enough hobbyists, so that the item would have been sold off earlier, at what seemed to be a very reasonable price at the time. It is a commonly needed item, yet it remains unsold.  Makes one wonder how LHSes should plan their inventory.

This happens with every business, and in many ways is part of life. But "dead stock" is also the reason many businesses fold.

I agree 100% that we spend and waste much more time/energy in importing stuff rather than buying locally. We as modellers should understand, that it is very important to support LHS in order for them to sustain. As Sai aptly said, we are usually too short sighted and get happy to save those Rs 200-300 and then later when something is urgently needed or the LHS closes down, we express our dis-satisfaction.

Now, i would also like to point it out to our LHS's ( and would be grateful if they take note of this ), that, here in India, because we have so many less people in this hobby, we need to have a slightly different approach. Apart from selling what the LHS stocks,which is good, it would be better if they were to appreciate what the customer is demanding, and attempt to get it to them, even though its in low numbers. If I look at my buyings over the past 1 year, 85% of it has gone to various Indian stores . the 15% i had to outsource from Tower because no one here was willing to to get what I wanted.
If you look at the Wanted topic, you will see that i posted a requirement for a F3A pattern plane - 1.20 size. Now even after nearly a month, no reseller has come up to me with an attractive offer. Why do our LHSes not work on looking at what the customers demand ?

I have dealt with several indian stores over the past many years into this hobby, and with nearly everyone i deal with, tries to push what they have to offer, rather than what i am wanting. I guess this is the same problem Ujjwal and Vinay faced. If they ever got me what i wanted, at a price even 10% above what i would get directly, they would get my patronage.

Hope that LHSes survive, as our hobby cannot run without them, and also hope that we all think and make our decisions with an open mind and keeping our egos aside.
-Gaurav

How about this comparision (and I am not saying order this item alone.)

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9632

10 set of Futaba Servo Connector for $1.99 = Roughly $3 considering shipping + customs (minus precious time)

but same connector sell for Rs 80 / piece! + shipping in most respectable LHS! and the import duty on such item is minimal (16% max, as far as I remember).

I guess we pay the price of novelty other than anything.

In short, considering the price and choice, online shops like HK/HC would always be be popular for most of the hobbyist, irrespective of geological region. LHS serve for more critical items like ARF/Radio other items in emergency. Any modeler with a model plan of 2-3 month would normally chose HK/HC by the sheer selection of item and proven quality.

I would be forced to spend Rs 80 on procuring such connector locally if I need them urgently. If some one is coming or I am ordering other items, I would prefer ordering from HK and stock up 10 of them at virtually price of one here.
India is a very price sensitive market, and we are anyway in an expensive hobby!


-Uj

Ujjual - Simple laws of economics, right ? 

First of all, please note my previous point about "stock acquired earlier" at a higher price.  Secondly, the "movement of stock" is a major issue with the number of hobbyists we have.  I remember Rajesh mentioning that unless the number of fliers in Bangalore grows 10x the current numbers, it is not worth considering taking this as a full time business/career.

Overall, like it has been said many times before, this is a true chicken and egg problem.

BTW, I would like to emphasize one point raised by Ujjwal.  LHSes should extend a helping hand to the local RC community by importing items in demand, even if it is done as an advanced purchase. Use forums like this to grab as many advanced orders as possible, and import in bulk after confirming the purchase ahead of time (looks doable, let us see what practical issues are there in implementing this suggestion).

Lack of such an option is one big reason people buy overseas.

I was under the impression that some shops already did this (like Rotor Chennai).

I think I said 1000x. With high duties and taxes and price sensitive market, this isn't a money making venture. With 1000x the total revenue might start to look attractive. If 10x  was sufficient, that would happen in the foreseeable future and I might have been more interested. At present it is only passion driving it. If this business was my source of income, I wouldn't be able to afford a idli vada breakfast at a neighborhood darshini 

There are a bunch of products that I'd like to have stocked just like Gaurav wanted a pattern plane. But when I look at how many I'd sell there aren't many Gauravs around. Now if I proceed with a small quantity, the per item costs go up and it is no longer competitive with international prices. My acquisition cost itself turns out to be about 10% more in such cases I evaluated. If I add taxes and profit, the only outcome will be more threads here about cut throat prices, no sales  If go with a large order to bring down the prices, there will be a lot of dead stock that will become out dated before they sell out. It is often cheaper for myself to buy single items international shops than buy direct from the factory as a dealer. For some items, buying and selling in India works out, it simply doesn't for other items in these market conditions.

These problems are going to get solved only when the hobby expands. Consider these growing pains of this hobby and continue the good job this forum and its members are doing towards this goal.

Sigh ! Everything here said is 100% correct. I guess we should just enjoy our hobby and be happy with what is available. hope everyone has a great weekend. Enjoy !

Ujjwal,

When price comparision are made why don't you see the positive side.

Here is an example:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7954&Product_Name=_TGS_Sport_10x6E_Precision_propeller

This price is at USD 2.20 add shipping (assume you bought a whole lot of stuff so the shipping is in cents) duties totally at 30% = 2.90 which is roughly Rs. 140/- plus add your cost of going to customs, time wasted (i think time is money) etc.

Whereas the same is available at a price less than Hobbycity here in India and the Price is Rs. 120/-
http://www.rcdhamaka.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_48_80&products_id=269

Another example:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6731&Product_Name=Carbon_Fiber_Rod_(solid)_2.0x750mm
This price is at USD 1.15 add shipping (assume you bought a whole lot of stuff so the shipping is in cents) duties totally at 30% = 1.50 which is roughly Rs. 75/- plus add your cost of going to customs. Apart from this Hobbycity gives you a lenght of 750mm so for 1000mm your price is Rs.100/-

Whereas the same is available at a price of Rs. 73/- and that too for 1000mm
http://www.rcdhamaka.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=56&products_id=291

Also note that when you buy from the LHS you are able to get the products in a stipulated time of next day or 2-3 days depending on your location or same day if you can go and pick it up whereas the items from HC/HK takes a couple of weeks or more.

Now the question to you is why don't you go and question Hobbycity about their prices.

Kindly note that once HK becomes part of China in 2010-11 would like to see Hobbycity offer the same prices.

Also instead of all the time telling that LHS are expensive you should try and inform other users which products are actually cheaper here with the LHS.

All products and services have a cost. Just to inform you that certain local hobby stores are actually exporting the items to US/Europe etc.,

Also what will you do about ARFs/Radios/Engines etc if you did not have LHS would you complain to HK/HC that LHS were actually cheaper.

Regarding quality most of LHS sell proven products.

So do not only compare were the prices are higher with the LHS it can be done the other way round also.

What i can say is that the LHS are making a strong effort to get products at lower prices in India for the hobby to grow. Kindly note that most of the LHS this is not there main line of business, alot of them are actually helping the fellow hobbyist.

Regarding quantum India is a very small market for most of the big manufacturers.

We don't have more than 300 active flyers in India as awhole, whereas US,Europe, UK, Singapore, Middle East etc have more than this by nearly 10x or like rajesh says 100x.

Regarding getting the stuff which is not available is a very complicated issue as LHS can't go to the manufacture and tell them they want say 2 nos of a particular product. Yes the range and variety is increasing with LHS and will continue to to do so, LHS are taking the customer feedback fir product availability very seriously, F3A patterns will be available soon in 90 & 120 size, so on and so forth . A lot of new items are being added the problem faced by LHS is that from the govt., it will all normalize in the coming months.

Would like to thank all Hobbyist who are buying from the LHS for their patronage on behalf of all LHS, would like to continue to see that the patronage from them and looking forward to LHS serving many more.

Happy landings/driving etc to all hobbyist in this Hobby.

bombayrc is not shutting down

here is a reply i got from Mr.Moiz