RC India

With my HK 450 being stuck up at Kolkata Customs since 12th. Nov., they are now telling me that there is a TOTAL BAN on any toys being imported from China. I felt that this ban was in place till Jan 2010 and was lifted thereafter. Can someone please confirm this?

I tried reasoning with him that other Customs have released similar consignments regularly but he refuses to listen. He has given me the option of sending the consignment back to HK at no cost.

VC Bhaiya does this toy ban apply to importing RC electronics as well or is it limited only to the toys?

hmmmm...thats bad!!!!!

people are importing, but its sheer luck if their consignment get pass through customs!!

try some alternatives like ......u know!!!!! some extra efforts, expenses!!!!!

all the best!!!

Have you asked for the reason for rejection in writing ?  Which rule EXACTLY is being referred to... in writing ?

They are supposed to let me know finally tomorrow. Since I have sent them a letter in writing, I would expect them to respond similarly. I plan to ask them for all relevant sections / sub sections once they tell me that they are not going to release it.

GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
MINISTRY OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

NOTIFICATION NO. 113/(RE-2008) / 2004-2009
NEW DELHI, DATED 16th JUNE, 2009

S.O. (E) In exercise of powers conferred by Section 5, read along with Section 3(2) of the Foreign Trade (Development and Regulation) Act, 1992, also read along with paragraph 2.1 of the Foreign Trade Policy, 2004-09, the Central Government hereby amends Notification No. 91 /(RE-2008) / 2004-2009 dated 2nd March, 2009 as under:-

   1. “Import of ‘Toys’ appearing under ITC Codes 9501, 9502, 9503 of Schedule – I of ITC(HS) Classifications of Export and Import Items is prohibited up to 23rd January, 2010 and until further orders. However, import of toys accompanied by the following certificates shall be permitted:
         1.  A certificate that the toys being imported conform to the standards prescribed in ASTM F963 or standards prescribed in ISO 8124 (Parts I-III) or IS 9873 [Parts I-III] or standards prescribed in EN 71;

         2. A Certificate of Conformance from the manufacturer that representative sample of the toys being imported have been tested by an independent laboratory which is accredited under ILAC, MRA and found to meet the specifications indicated above. The certificate would also link the toys in the consignment to the period of manufacture indicated in the Certificate of Conformity”.

   2. This issues in public interest.

Sd/-
(R.S. Gujral)
Director General of Foreign Trade and
Ex-officio Additional Secretary to the Government of India
(Issued from F. No. 01/89/180/0053/AM01/PC-2(A)



Please check the above notification

Rajaram, thanks a ton! However, what is the status after 23rd. Jan 2010? Any ideas?

Hi VC

Did you approach HobbyKing to provide with any of the certificates mentioned above ? I also have ordered a AXN Floater Jet on 30 Dec..wondering what would happen to the consignment as it will pass through Kolkata port ?

Hope this ends well.

Regards
Ankur

please check the link below
http://dgft.gov.in/exim/2000/not/not09/not2709.htm

Its a torture..... & simply hares people just for importing toys.. which neither we can manufacture here locally nor import from abroad so the simple solution is quit this hobby & play cricket.. i think thats the only sport this country knows

Dear All i  want to clear one thing....Pls do not tell truth to Foreign Post office Or Custom dept, or Other govt Babus....you just tell him this is Replacement parts or school,college Project parts...Or electronic Comp......pls pls pls dont tell this is a Toy.

Regards
laxman

The HK Customs Invoice which accompanies the consignment proudly states "Made in China - Plastic Toy Parts". That is what has complicated the entire issue!

i have ordered some magnets from HK ,might there be any problem???  :headscratch:

Lol...pankaj ji...youe parcle is clear (from kolkata foregn) they sent to domestic hub.

Laxman

laughing out loud .... are you really ???  lol
thanks by the way... :salute: :salute:

Dont worry.. they just ask invoice for Value & Fright ...they always ask..what is this, why r u import this, what is price or other stupid questions..you just tell your item in short word...like school model Or school project parts...if thy ask invoice you just remove "Plastic toy parts & Hs Code..like.9503---something
& take fresh printout..

You guys are audacious ;)

Posting such advice in public :o

Consignments to Mumbai do not pass through Kolkata. And, in any case, it is the Customs dept. that is creating the hassle. For a Mumbai address, the customs authority will be at Santa Cruz (EMS), Ballard Pier (FPO, Air post parcels) or Sahar, (Courier Cell).

Hi EveryOne,

              You people need not to try for the certification from any of the vendors.Because those certificated will only be provided for the bulk importers.As hobby king dont even bother for the declaration why they would bother about the certification.

               And the hobby toys or the R/C products none of the products doesn't have any certifications asked by the Indian Govt,because these things are not meant for children below 3Yrs.

               But unfortunately the R/C models also comes under the Hs code 9053.So while importing through Ems or any parcel service mention them as Hobby Parts are Accessories.

              To get the ASTM certification procedure itself you have to pay 500USD to get the instructions.It is very costly.

Hi Mr Sushil

The consignment is for Delhi and not Mumbai and hence the worries. I guess for Delhi it will go through Kolkata  but i am not sure if it will be checked by customs at Kolkata or Delhi. Delhi seems logical as in the case customs decide to detain it..they cant expect me to come to Kolkata to clarify (or is it ??)

Regards
Ankur

Some information on "HK 450" will help us to give better inputs. What exactly is the thing u imported?

HK 450 Heli kit + all other accessories needed to build the model. No Tx or Rx is included in the consignment.

as my advice...dont include all accessories & model in One parcle...always model should be in single parcle &
order 2nd parcle after 10 days...this is small costly...but it working.....:)

The correct code is 95.3.8 for all airplanes & helis.

Hi again,

http://dgft.gov.in/exim/2000/not/not09/not2709.htm (no more ban on importing)
http://exim.indiamart.com/customs-duty/ch95.html (code information)

send them a copy highlighting 95.3.8 with above documents and mark it to their senior most official i.e. assistant commissioner. i hope this will help otherwise send me a PM. Thx

Thanks a ton Crazypilot. I had already been pointed to the first document by Mr. G. Chatterjee of DGFT Kolkata Office. The second document is valuable. Max duty leviable is 35% of the computed value ( assuming that they refuse to accept the invoice value of goods).

 However, I am still looking for any document that clearly sates whether the import of toys or toy parts from China is allowed or is banned.

AFAIK there is no such document available. But u can always use the example of importers. one can see all kinda Chinese toys freely available in market without any certificates. If they refuse to hear u, Use RTI or appeal in court. dont just sit back, fight and u will get ur heli. and remember stick to 95.3.8 only. if they ask u to prove that ur item is a 95.3.8 then u tell them to prove its not. one more thing the link i sent u about chapter 95 is of year 2009. if u can get a copy of new customs book then u will find there is no duty on these items or maybe 5%. i cant find it online. cheers !

HI Crazypilot as you said that the airplane models comes into this category 95.3.8.But I found this on net.

http://www.infodriveindia.com/Hs-Codes/9503-Other-toys-reduced-size-scale-models.aspx

What ever comes into this category they are asking for this.

   i) A certificate that the toys being imported conform to the standards prescribed in ASTM F963 or standards prescribed in ISO 8124 (Parts I-III) or IS 9873 [Parts I-III] or standards prescribed in EN 71;
(ii) A Certificate of Conformance from the manufacturer that representative sample of the toys being imported have been tested by an independent laboratory which is accredited under ILAC, MRA and found to meet the specifications indicated

VC Sir, what is the declaration of this parcel.. was it Toy or Toy Parts? Their is a big difference and that is why people choose toy parts for importing. Our legal system is designed in such a way that there are always loop holes to keep the lawyers making money. I was discussing this with my lawyer friend and he pointed me that since the ban is only on Toys (finished product), Toy Parts (unfinished goods) should be exempted from such ban, just keep this point in consideration as well.

Guys, I have received my 500 size Heli kit from HK without any hustles, I even got the servos, Motor, ESC, Gyro everything....the route was through Kolkatta - per IPS Web Tracking (i guess that's where all the china shipments are received for India).

Now, if this law was in place since 2009 and was actually effective, why would me or Vinay or Nehutech or Annam or anyone get the shipments delivered without any hiccups  :headscratch: People have got Radios delivered to their door steps which are actually restricted items be it from China or elsewhere.

There has to be some catch for sure.... The parcel which has got stuck, firstly was it through EMS or Air-mail ?? Second, what was the invoice amount declared ?? Third, what was the content declaration ??

Lets get answers to all these questions and we can do some analysis on how different it was from the orders that were delivered...

just scroll to this part

950380    Other toys and models, incorporating a motor:

u will find nothing is defined after 4 march 2009 so its free

 :Rs:3000/- paid as "Processing Fees" (without any receipt  ;)) and the parcel is on its way to Guwahati. Should reach in a day or two. Agony  :banghead: and Ecstasy  (:|~

Kindly share with us what did u do to get it processed? Thx

Paid the money, what else? End of story!

My hardware tool shop just informed me that all chines tools will be unavailable in future as per his supplier and the market will be like earlier, without chines tools. He cannot told the reason but just hint that border perhaps sealed or like that.

Most of these spoken-unspoken-expied law are used by Babus to extract money. Somebody was saying that few LHS in the capital are gearing up to get hobby stuff being imported through 'Banned' as few other LHS are importing them posing as individual user.

Anyway, the  fore said ASTM F963 standard are for commercial importers to import toy for sale, to guard Indian consumer from harmful paint and other stuff. I hope getting 1-2 piece for personal use should not come under such preview.

Chinese tools revolutionized the country. An Indian Powered drill which used to cost minimum Rs 3000, were available for as low as Rs 600, yes of lower quality what an occasion home user needs. Such import curb would surely take us to the Era of Pre-1995 when we might again forced to buy BPL-Texla-EC TV and a mere 21" CTV might cost 1900(what it used to cost in 1990, even barring inflation).

SAD.

While China stuff is cheaper but that is very much debatable... China stuff is not cheaper its "upto the specs". Spektrum and Futaba the two prominent leaders in 2.4Ghz Radio technology have all their radios "Made in China", Exported to US and Imported back to India :). Same way the cheap HK 2.4ghz radio is "Made in China" too... their advantage is their manufacturing industry and mass scale production. Most of the production is on mass scale, hence the "cheap" factor comes in picture... with compromise on quality if indicated by the client.

Talking about TV / Cellphones... you cannot really compare it to 95 era as those were different times and again the simple rule of economics (demand / supply ) comes in play. Most of the big dealers of electronics in Lajpat Rai market, Delhi (the biggest electronics market in Asia) get their stuff from China and the orders goes with specs and define the max cost per piece and hardly any mention of quality.

Ujjwana, not for increasing the price, but he cannot give me another tiny Vice (180/-) & Diamond Files set(90/-) just for supply dropped. Some other like me I found just asking for a few days for different small tools after office hours like me and he has to deny us. Earlier his shop was full of tools, but recently chines tools are seen less than indian. But As hs shop is still full of tools, and he is not pushing for other nearest indian item, i have faith on him. However, he today managed to supply me the vice asked earlier.

Hi Everyone,

                 What ever you do.You people will never get Educated.Of course everyone will have their own views.What ever it is incorporated by motor or what ever.the chapter 95 (9503).It is banned in INDIA.You need the certificated to import either for personal use or commercial.And the duty is 26%+Cvd or any charges involved total comes for 35%.


http://www.infodriveindia.com/Hs-Codes/9503-Other-toys-reduced-size-scale-models.aspx

95032000    Reduced-size (“scale”) model assembly kits, whether or not working models, excluding those of sub-he
   23-Jan-2009    Prohibited    
   
07-Apr-2006     Free

I even saw the customs books. I visited one of the customs clearing agent and clarified with him.Hope I think the clouds are clear for everyone.

Regards,
Kalyan.

The laws in India are made in such a way that lawyers find a way to break them "legally". The ban is on "scale" models... if the model has printed "NOT a scale model" it does not fall at least in this particular category.

Similar example from a different field, the law says you cannot have "Tinted Film" on Cars' glasses that cause more than x% of non-visibility. I do not have the exact words from the books of law at the moment, but the law is ONLY on "Tinted Film" and NOT on "tinted glasses".. you CAN have tinted glasses even with 0% visibility and NOT brake the law. This has been confirmed, implemented & won in court by one of my lawyer friend,  he helps me finding loop holes in our system :)

Hi Findvikas,

                  I agree with you.Ok if it is not named as Scaled model...under what category you will name?Other than that you cannot name in another category.

The Law about the Tinted film is great but that is about the using of the film in tha passaenger cars.This is totally different this is import law.

Other category is simply "non-scale model", I have seen many toys in local toy shops and many models at HobbyTown USA which is one of the biggest hobby shop in US and they mention it as "non-scale model" or "this is NOT a scale model". A scale model as you know is a model which is in proportion of the actual size and with very less or no errors in proportion.

Just ask HK or any hobby shop to print this in special instruction, "NOT A SCALE MODEL", "NON-SCALE MODEL" to be printed in declaration and you are free to import it. All other models which are not in scale are treated as "toys". That does not mean that customs will not cause any trouble.. the best way to import them is in pieces. Motor itself is free to import, body alone is free to import.. so import them separately :)

Ok If you mention it as a NON-Scale model then it comes as  a toy as per your definition above.Why because it is not a scale model. To import a toy you have to provide the certificate.

My two bits on the entire issue.
First thing if you read the HS code, which goes
"950300 -Tricycles, scooters, pedal cars and similar wheeled toys; dolls' carriages; dolls; other toys; reduced size ("Scale") Models and similar recreational models, working or not;..."
What needs to be noted is that "reduced size scale and similar recreational models are preceeded by ; or commas which indicates these are seperate from the previously mentioned toys, doll's carriages, other toys etc, or in other words these are not toys.
Now if you would care to look at the certification which is necessary to get the toys imported (for e.g. ASTM F963-08 which I have reproduced below some portion
ASTM F963
1. Scope


1.1 This specification relates to possible hazards that may not be recognized readily by the public and that may be encountered in the normal use for which a toy is intended or after reasonably foreseeable abuse. It does not purport to cover every conceivable hazard of a particular toy. This specification does not cover product performance or quality, except as related to safety. Except for the labeling requirements pointing out the functional hazards and age range for which the toy is intended, this specification has no requirements for those aspects of a toy that present an inherent and recognized hazard as part of the function of the toy. Such an example is a sharp point necessary for the function of a needle. The needle is an inherent hazard that is well understood by the purchaser of a toy sewing kit, and this hazard is communicated to the user as part of the normal educational process.

1.2 On the other hand, while a riding toy has inherent hazards associated with its use (for example, falling off onto the sidewalk), the possible hazards associated with its construction (sharp edges, exposed mechanisms, etc.) will be minimized by the application of this specification.

1.3 This specification covers requirements and contains test methods for toys intended for use by children under 14 years of age. Different age limits for various requirements will be found in this specification. These limits reflect the nature of the hazards and expected mental or physical ability, or both, of a child to cope with the hazards.

1.4 Articles not covered by this specification are as follows:
Bicycles
Tricycles
Sling shots and sharp-pointed darts
Playground equipment
Non-powder guns
Kites
Hobby and craft items in which the finished item is not
primarily of play value
Model kits in which the finished item is not primarily of
play value
Crayons, paints, chalks, and other similar art materials in
which the material itself or the finished item is not
primarily of play value, except that all art materials,
whether or not a component of a toy, must comply with
LHAMA, in accordance with 4.29.1-4.29.3.
Toy Chests
Sporting goods, camping goods, athletic equipment, mu-
sical instruments, and furniture; however, toys that are
their counterparts are covered. (It is recognized that
there is often a fine line between, for example, a musical
instrument or a sporting item and its toy counterpart.
The intention of the producer or distributor, as well as
normal use and reasonably foreseeable abuse, deter-
mines whether the item is a toy counterpart.)
Powered models of aircraft, rockets, boats, and land
vehicles; however, toys that are their counterparts are
covered.

1.5 General guidelines for age labeling toys and toy packaging are contained in Annex A1.

1.6 Information regarding packaging and shipping is contained in Annex A2.

You would note that under para 1.4 there are certain exclusion which are not covered under the said standards, similalry for EN and other standards defined models (that is not toys) would be excluded.

Now it would also  be pertinet to read the ban order which states "  

Since I was not able to continue typing on such a long post I have continued as next post

The so called ban orders need to be clarified first
1. The URL here  http://dgft.gov.in/exim/2000/not/not09/not2709.htm (http://dgft.gov.in/exim/2000/not/not09/not2709.htm)
very clearly ammended the ban and only put certain restrictions on import other than which they are freely importable.

Now you see,
there you have a loophole
The models we import are not toys, the standards do not apply to our models, and models are a seperate article under the same classification.
Which mean..... draw your own conclusion

Very well put Flyingboxcar  :salute:

Now if they detain my axn at delhi customs..this is what i am going to say   :thumbsup:

Regards
Ankur

Do it at your own risk and cost.  :giggle:
But yes this line would be proved right if you are ready for the long haul (as someone actually did and shared his exp here with all of us)

I thought Santhosh's Customs Order (http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/customs-order-(everyone-should-keep-)/) already clarified that both both toys and models come under 95.03.80, yet they are considered distinguished from one another.

Yes Anwar it did, but that only clarifies about difference and not about the requirment to get the ASTM/EN certifications as the order dated Jan 27, 2010 clearly puts all under the same bucket as far as certification is considered.
But if you went to a lab to get the models or kits certified per the GoI mandated standards, no standard lab would be able to do that since the standards exclude these items.

Then with numerous posts on the topic indicate that people are not reading things and we get various interpretations of the rule.

This discussion has been going on and on after I initiated it. I don't know whether to take a bow or to apologise for causing you all to waste your valuable time by contributing to this infernally frustrating topic?!

My two penny bits:

1. No matter how many sections, clauses and Acts you are conversant with, if they want to screw you, they will find a loophole.

2. Sure you can take them to court, are you prepared to slug it out and to wait that long?

3. End of the day, it is a matter of probability (I don't want to use the word LUCK), some parcel out of hundreds will get stuck. If it happens to be yours, Happy Birthday to you!

4. Our country is governed by archaic rules and systems. Inefficiency and corruption are accepted components of our daily existence. An acquaintance of mine justified accepting bribes as a 'retirement benefit! He owns a fleet of premium cars on a salary of Rs.20,000/- per month. C'est la vie....such is life.

5. The root cause of my parcel getting blocked were (a) It came through EMS and therefore attracted mandatory customs inspection. (b) It proudly declared on the invoice "Made in China" & "Plastic Toy Parts". If you wish to challenge the whim of the Customs by quoting laws and clauses, please refer to point no. 1 given above.

6. Rs. 3000 was required to send the parcel on its way. Today the status appears as "In Transit"   Thank you very much!

7. Most importantly, common sense should tell us that 17 items (no matter how insignificant) arriving in a huge cardboard box, declared at US $ 28 only with the invoice reading "Helicopter this" and "Helicopter that", is bound to get anyone a tad suspicious.

8. My learnings from this entire episode , for future reference:

a. Try and avoid EMS
b. Keep the consignment small, if need be, reorder
c. Avoid calling up the Customs Authorities or writing to them - Have PATIENCE!
d. Declare a respectable value on the Customs Invoice
e. Fix up a middle man who knows his way around
f. Hope all the above helps, if not, please refer to Point No.1 mentioned above :banghead:

THose 5 points are the golden points VC. thats what I and many here have been telling and nobody listens  :P

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

+1 VC

+10 VC

Hi Anwar according to the customs order that is happened some where in 2008. The HS code 95.03.80 is prohibited not restricted.
Link : http://www.infodriveindia.com/Hs-Codes/9503-Other-toys-reduced-size-scale-models.aspx

You can Clearly see that as on 23-Jan-2009 the status is prohibited after that no update of the status.

Hi Mr Kalyan

The link posted by flyingboxcar clearly mentions date as "the 27th January 2010". So isn't this the latest one ?
The website is not updated i guess?

http://dgft.gov.in/exim/2000/not/not09/not2709.htm

Regards
Ankur

My experience with EMS has been quite positive. Perhaps because I am in Mumbai and have been able to follow up and resolve issues, personally. But it goes to their credit that they have been reasonable and willing to listen to you, if you are talking sense, of course!

HI ankurkaul17,

                         That is right and main thing is after imposing ban on certain items,they have relaxed the policy with some restrictions but the policy restricted is not freed after that date means that is banned right?
9503 80 status is prohibited.


Pls follow the link : http://www.infodriveindia.com/Hs-Codes/9503-Other-toys-reduced-size-scale-models.aspx in this one you can see the total items and the status.

The link is the notification of the policy relaxing but what about the items which are prohibited.

 
While I agree that many may have had issues, my experience either through EMS, USPS, Royal Post and other government postal agencies have been absolutely positive. As many would know, whatever postal service you use, once it lands up in India, it has to go through postal apprisal department (PAD) of customs and this is where all the issues arise
I have been questioned several times on the contents, value etc but never had my parcel been stopped. And most of my packages have been kits upto 46 inches length.
I attribute this ease of clearance to correct declaration irrespective of what the sender chooses to declare on the package, and refusal to yield to demands which have been sometimes made.
I should also say that I was always ready to fight out and bear the delays becuase I know I was within my rights to import and I was not misdeclaring anything and ready to pay the duty on my imports.  
There was one instance where I was made an overt demand by one of the lower rung functionaries in the office and which was refused. I had thought that maybe this was once case where I would have to slug it out but to my surprise the package landed at my door steps in two more days with usual duty.

While it is very easy to blame the Govt functionary for corruption and greed, almost alll of us always forget about the supply side of the equation!

Please note I am not taking a high moral ground, I am just trying to state the facts as they are.  

Kalyan,
From what I understand the information at your link is not from a Govt site, but a third party. Then if you see they have information for years, where while the item is listed as free in 2006, it is prohibited in 2009. But the DGFT/CBEC site information says it is free.

HI flyingboxcar  can you pls give me the website address? Directlink

http://dgft.gov.in/exim/2000/not/not09/not2709.htm

Thanks Ankur,
that is what I was referring to.  

Some one today sent me a PM asking for some advice.
"Hello sir,i'm thinking of ordering a trainer plane kit from tower..Wat will be the result in customs? How much duty they'll charge for the kit?"
I thought it would be better to put my answer here so that all may benifit.

If assume you are planning to order a wodden kit and not an ARF. Go ahead and place the order, but my suggestion would be to opt for UPS as the customs process would be dealt by them. If it is an ARF, I would not suggest for simnple reason of damage in transit unless you opt for UPS which would make the cost very unattractive.
However please do this at own risk as there would always be the probability of the package getting stuck in the custom process and you should be ready to go through all that.
If you think you are willing to take the associated risks, go ahead and order
   

Kindly read this notice.....where is clearly menction...and until further orders

jo ki abhi tak aaya nahi hai... :giggle:

http://www.infodriveindia.com/Notifications/Ban-on-import-of-toys-20933.aspx

Date:  27-01-2009
Notification No:  CUSTOMS INSTRUCTION
Issuing Authority:  INDIAN CUSTOMS    
Type:  Instruction  
File No:  450/142/2008-Cus.IV  
Subject:  Ban on import of toys from China by DGFT  
Government of India
Ministry of Finance
Department of Revenue
Central Board of Excise & Customs

159A, North Block, New Delhi.
27th January, 2009.

Subject: Ban on import of toys from China by DGFT – reg.

Sir / Madam,

Kindly refer to the DGFT’s Notification No.82(RE-2008)/2004-09 dated 23.01.2009 wherein the Schedule - I (Imports) of the ITC(HS) Classification of Export and Import Items, 2004-09 has been amended as follows:

“(1) Import of ‘Toys’ from China appearing under ITC Codes 9501, 9502, 9503 of Schedule – I of ITC(HS) Classifications of Export and Import Items is prohibited for six months with immediate effect and until further orders.”

2.Further, it is reiterated that in the context of greater concerns about sub-standard toys containing toxic and poisonous material being imported into the country, the Board had issued instructions vide circular No.21/2008-Customs dated 18.12.2008 providing for stringent measures such as absolute confiscation along with necessary penal action against the importer for non-compliance with the existing legal provisions as applicable on import of such toys.


3.In view of the above, you are requested to take further necessary action in the matter accordingly.
Yours faithfully,
(M.M. Parthiban)
Director (Customs
F. No. 450/142/2008-Cus.IV
 

Jo ki aa gaya hai Sir :)
check my post above..official govt site pe..order date "the 27th January 2010" jo ki  27-01-2009 k baad ata hai..lol  :giggle:

Regards
Ankur

Bang on Laxman, that was the initial order in 2009, then there was naother ammendement to it in 2010, and then if your read the above letter, it said ban on "toys" not on other items covered under the heading of Chapter 95.
This takes us back to my lengthy post where I have clearly indicated that our models (or atleast the models/parts/engines I import are not toys or toy counterpart but reduced size scale or recreational models and hence the ban even if effective till further orders does not affect my imports

but sir...where is shown you can import toy from china......in you post..here is shown.."in supersession of notification No. 113/(RE-2008)/2004-09 dated 16th June, 2009."
"   What About This..???.."DGFT’s Notification No.82(RE-2008)/2004-09 dated 23.01.2009 "

But when you ordered from Hobbyking...they indicate "China plastic toy parts " with Hs Code..9503 on Invoice.

Dear laxman Sir

Yes we cannot import toys from China without the required certificate.
But our plane do not come under toys at all.
The DGFT’s Notification No.82(RE-2008)/2004-09 dated 23.01.2009 has been superceded by the notification mentioned in my post as that is the latest one...so forget about puraney notification  :giggle:

And even when i ordered just linkage stoppers and push rod snap-ons (no plastic just metal) it still had the "China plastic toy parts". I think they put that on everything..invoice ka print lene se pehle delete kar dena  :giggle:

Regards
Ankur

Today i went to Foregn Post office & meet to Asst.com..he said we have not recived Any notification about
release China Toy parts Without Any certificate..But if you need your parcle Pay 26.83% duty Or forget about your parcle

Laxman.

how to proove this is not a Toy...becouse Hobbyking indicate China plastic toy parts..on invoice..
or delete karne ka idea to meine Pahle he de diya tha.. :bow: :bow: :bow:

Laxman,
What is your intention not to pay duty?
And next time you dont even need to go to meet, if they send you a call memo reply with all information through a letter that is sufficient, but do not expect not to pay what is legit duty.
If you think duty is more than it should be when the delivery happens you can make a written request that you are not satisfied and make an appeal to prescribed authority for correct assesment of duty
 

Had a talk with Laxman Sir..the issue is that HK puts invoices inside large parcels which clearly mentions "Made in China. Plastic toy parts" thus we cannot prove to customs that this is not a toy even if the exim policy clearly mentions that it is.


Regards
Ankur

This is going to hit the fan, I know, and probably go through the roof. OK, I gave it a lot of serious thought and decided to post this.

I can help with imports from HK or wherever, as long as it comes in thru Kolkata and enters India by 31st. Dec. I've just got hold of a contact who can clear them for a price.

FYI, I paid 3000 for a consignment valued at US$ 98. Do the math. (US$ 66, steep I know, but I just got desperate.)

No restrictions on price band / size of packaging / items contained (ONLY hobby / RC stuff - Radios included).

PM me.

VC

This issue is now on Hobbyking forum as well. Lets see how does HK responds

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14555&PID=102922#102922

Link for ASTM f963-03 certificate..details

http://www.timeihk.com/TechnicalInfo/iso_doc/ASTM_F963-03_2003_EngOri.pdf

read  carefully....

"1.3 This specification covers requirements and contains test methods for toys intended for use by children under 14 years of age. Different age limits for various requirements will be found in this specification. These limits reflect the nature of the hazards and expected mental or physical ability, or both, of a child to cope with the hazards.

1.4 Articles not covered by this specification are as follows:
Bicycles
Tricycles
Sling shots and sharp-pointed darts
Playground equipment
Non-powder guns
Kites
Hobby and craft items in which the finished item is not
primarily of play value
Model kits in which the finished item is not primarily of
play value

1.4 Articles not covered by this specification are as follows:
Hobby and craft items in which the finished item is not
primarily of play value
Model kits in which the finished item is not primarily of
play value

Also of value to us is the above verbiage

So is our hobby "not primarily PLAY" ?  Isn't that subject to interpretation ? :headscratch:

Had not noticed this point No 1 from VC,
(reproduced below)
1. No matter how many sections, clauses and Acts you are conversant with, if they want to screw you, they will find a loophole.
And my take on that is , they screw us because we do not know all the Acts, rules, sections and clauses. 

To answer your question Anwar, primarily play value would be derived from the intended use and age groups it is aimed at. If you see the ASTM language, it clealry defines this , like a fishing rod and it's toy counterpart (now this toy counterpart will have a play value not the original fishing rod). However it also clarifies that the line defining these is very thin. Something like a 50 size Heli and a 3.5 channel Heli (now the 3.5 can fairly be contested by the customs authority as a toy and having play value)
I am happy and convinced that for the items I use and import no play value can be atributed to it. 

somehow this thread is now beyond my comprehension.  :banghead: :banghead: kindly some one make it easier for me to understand.  Can we import from HK or Not? If yes please provide some basic pointers. Thx

In response to Flyingboxcar, yes they screw us because we are not thorough with the legalities concerned. I agree with you on that. However, there is something called logistics and dearth of time. For example, take my current case (that is where this thread started from):

1. I am at Guwahati, and the consignment is stuck up in Kolkata.

2. http://ipsweb.ptcmysore.gov.in/ipswebtracking/ - I visit the site and all it tells me is that the
    consignment left Hong Kong 5th Nov. Thereafter, they are clueless.

"11/5/2010 6:00:00 PM     HONG KONG     HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE     Send item abroad (EDI-received)"

3. Ditto from the EMS / Speedpost office at Guwahati "Your parcel left Hong Kong on 5th Nov. It
   is on it's way"

4. Luckily Hobby King / Hong Kong Post is more aware of the parcels whereabouts than the
   Indian Authorities. What a joke!

5. I became aware that the parcel reached India on 12th Nov and was detained by the Customs
    thanks to the Hong Kong Posts website. No help from the services for which I pay taxes.

6. So now, left to its own devices here is what would have happened:

a. After a wait (period decided by the honourable authorities) the Indian Customs would send me
    a letter by ordinary / registered mail asking me to furnish certain documents - Would that
    letter ever reach me? If it did, how long would it take? And what blessed documents would
    they ask for and where would I get them from?

b. I would then send them a letter enumerating the purpose and stating the intended use of the
    consignment.

c. The Authorities would peruse my letter and if satisfied, they would release the consignment.
    In my case, that didn't happen. I spoke to them and informed them that I had received a
    clearance from DGFT and quoted clause and sub section attracting a maximum of 35% dutiy
    on the declared value. It fell to deaf ears.

d. They would then ask me to go to Kolkata and meet the authorities and plead my case with
    section / sub section / my thorough knowledge of the law. Then I would spend time in Kolkata
    cooling my heels waiting for them to dawdle and hem and haw through the archaic
    paperwork. After a considerable span of time they would finally agree with me and hand over
    my precious parcel.

e. I would emerge victorious from the Customs Office with my head held high and a battle well
    fought, screaming "Jaago Grahak Jaago"  :banghead:

f. I guess 7000 in Airfare + 7 days of lodging expenses in Kolkata would be a better choice for
   some who would not bow down to greasing palms, I am made of a meeker mettle.


Flyingboxcar, I mean no disrespect to you. There is no uniformity in this country - not even in corruption. It's all very well to be gung ho when you are armed with a vast cache of legal knowledge. However, there may be cases when you are strapped for time and bound by logistics. There has to be a different approach - "There are different strokes for different folks."

Explain one thing to me in black and white - all the pundits have discussed dates, specifications, toys, scale models, sections, clauses, rules, definitions et al - why is it still as clear as mud for most of us? If it was all so easy, I think by now we would all have been armed with a set of documents and a personal guarantee from our knowledgeable members and a pointwise S.O.P. of what to do when your parcel is detained by the Indian Customs I haven't found that as yet. All I have found is that we are well on our way to acquiring LLB's!

I tried a simple approach and it worked - simple - grease it out. That's my S.O.P. What's even better, I now have a conduit for importing whatever I need, at a price, while others are discussing law.

I am sorry if this post sounds caustic / sarcastic, I have just about spent a fortune on STD calls  to the Customs and DGFT offices and have learnt NOTHING NEW. The same stuff is being bandied about here. There is no point. NO ONE can guarantee that "If your consignment is from so and so place, and it contains so and so items and if the valuation is so and so, then you can produce document number so and so and write so and so letter and your parcel will be released in such and such time frame."

Wake up and smell the coffee - This is India 2010 - nothing has changed..........

My apologies to anyone who I may have inadvertently offended. I am just frustrated out of my mind with this archaic and corrupted system (which people like us are further fueling by indulging the people concerned).

Do u have one in DELHI? Kindly PM the contact no. Thx

VC bhaiya, will your conduit be only available till the 31st december only??

I think its upto each one of us the path we choose.
1.To lament the state the country,officialdom, systems are, how we are made to pay for services which we 'ought to get as a right, how other countries systems and processes for which we have not even paid any are useful and better than ours, and still not only feed the logistics of the corruption chain oneself but also offer to arrange to do so for others. Or
2.Find out what  one's rights(and duties/obligations) are, and stand for it, refuse to yield to the pressures from some of the corrupt officials, educate others, bear a bit discomfort and delay and be ready to hold his or her head high.
May each one of us choose what he/she considers to be right.
Good night folks, have a sound sleep. I for one 'am sure always sleep well

I choose the middle path - change what I can and accept/live with what I can't. Good night!

+1 VC. Same here. All's Well that Ends Well.

Hi All Regarding such experience I tried to share with you all people but everyone has their own Theoretical knowledge.I think little practical will work.Just go any clearing agent for the info and you will get all the info needed.

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-general-topics/mumbai-customs-experience/msg33032/#msg33032

Ok Anyway if any need help in FPO in Mumbai and EMS in Mumbai Just pm me> I know a middle person who can clear the parcels by taking his fees,But you have to pay the duty.The fees for his services not for the duty.

According to my knowledge of the customs in INDIA, I suppose this wont last long. With the change of customs Inspector in most of the cities, wich is done almost twice a year in Delhi, these all laws of chineese ban will take a back seat...

At the moment EMS, air parcel or what so ever... all are giving pains... It just rolls from one block to another waiting even to be DETAINED... But the LAALAs do not even care to evaluate on the basis of the New laws, which says nothing about the CHINEESE BAN... It is a thing of the past... It was removed when the ban on chineese telecom industries was taken off...

As per my knowledge, it wont last long. and when the storage of Detention centre is full, all the pending parcels will be released without notification... SO JUST CHILLAX AND LET YOUR PARCEL DISCOVER EVERY CORNER OF THE FPO...

The amount of study I did in my school days is nothin in comparison to the study of the indian laws and customs regulation on import of "anything" in INDIA...

Got it! Finally...................
Can someone PM me the link for the Assembly Instructions please. Please don't post it here.

Hey Guys

I am happy to announce that from now on Hobbyking will not mention "Toys" on its invoice. Check the thread on Hobbyking..this is for all shipping types. 

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14555&PN=1

Happy days ahead.

Regards
Ankur

If someone orders from Hobyking with either air parcel, ems or air mail (unregistered)...please post a screenshot of the customs invoice here so that we can see if the word "toys" has been removed from it.