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« on: April 19, 2014, 07:25:28 PM »
technotronicsindia
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Hey folks i am back with another question . I have read that GPS based all drones existing today are hackable /Spoofing (Technical terms) . I wanted to know how to protect our GPS based Controller /drones /UAV etc . Do we have any controller in market that can stop spoofing .

GLONASS based Controller is still not out .

Hmm let me ask straight

1. What is way to protect UAV from spoofing  ? any good solution .
2. Its OT question . how can we have control over our quadcopter/RCplanes  flight without gps for higher range like 50-100 kms . Any good technology we can implement for quadcopter . like VSAT or any other specific .


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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2014, 11:08:59 PM »
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I dont think there is any flight controller/gps modules in public domain to protect you against GPS spoofing. We generally use Civilian GPS which is not encrypted, and no you cant encrypt it yourself, then I think there is Military GPS, but you would need specific permissions from US government(highly impossible i guess) and equipments to use that. I came across a document which has some counter measures pointed out with some of them achievable by software alone. So if you are a programmer/researcher or have technical knowledge you can check out whether its achievable in APM or Pixhawks or any other open source Auto Pilot flight controllers. http://lewisperdue.com/DieByWire/GPS-Vulnerability-LosAlamos.pdf

First of all legally speaking we are not supposed to fly RC/hobby grade air crafts out of sight. If you are a part of some team doing R&D or something you would need requisite permissions to do so but for an Rc grade stuff, I highly doubt if it would qualify.

For argument sake lets assume you get permissions. So if you meant 50-100kms altitude,commercial planes loaded with million $$ equipments fly between 10-15km altitude.Can you really get a quadcopter/RC plane to 50-100kms of altitude with current tech? Forget about navigation what about radio/flight controllers/motors/batteries and rest of hardware of current generation, would they work at/till such altitudes? And what about the investment, because Im pretty sure it would be huge for a hobbyist. There are many more things that can be added but I would love to know whats your purpose of flying at such altitudes.

If you meant 50-100kms in horizontal range, I would like to know whats your intention/purpose for such a long range, because your questions scare me a bit.


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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 11:53:48 PM »
technotronicsindia
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Hmm my purpose is used to make some rcplanes /quadcopters etc for defense purpose . Currently we are working with Indian defense system but on some other project . We deal in designing high level security architect for indian defence including indian airforce and navy . We are planning to project some products related to them .Apart from that

Hope now u are not scared Tongue
Certain information are classified which we cant share openly much .

For FPV we will be using  technology which can give range of 50-100kms at LOS and 3-5km at NLOS .This information is completely transmitted in secured manner .kinda encrypted .


My only question is how to control the plane or quadcopter remotely .Will GPS based controller will help directly in controlling ?
Or we need some technology like VSAT .Also http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21373353 . (US drone was hacked)
This means even military based drones using GPS  are been hacked !!





if any one with high experience is ready to talk and join us for small project ,thinking what i talk was correct and makes sense please drop me PM with your no . Will be happy to have small meet .
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 12:36:06 PM »
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The article you pointed out nowhere mentions that it was hacked via gps spoofing. Infact it is not exactly known how did the UAV crash, and there are many theories. Moreover these UAV's wont be completely dependent on GPS, more tools may be used in tandem such as VOR/DME/TACAN etc. But we wont know it for sure because that would be classified info!

You can control an rc aircraft irrespective of a gps module because that would depend on your radio range. Gps only provides you location and helps you/AP in navigation. And IMO everything is hackable, just need right kind of people to do it.

Now everything you are asking has already been done with some rc grade stuff and items are available including encrypted video tx/rx , so is long range tx/rx. Homebrew antennas with tracking can take care of extreme long range.But fact is does defense forces really want an assembled rc craft made out of off the shelf items widely available? Because anyone with intermediate rc skills,trial and error, can assemble it. Results of similar militarized version of RC grade North Korean drones

http://www.suasnews.com/2014/04/28529/n-korean-drone-crashed-in-gangwon-last-year/
http://www.suasnews.com/2014/04/28519/third-drone-found-by-wild-ginseng-digger/

If you are really making something for defense forces then it should be something indigenous wherein you can get a final product according to your specs which inturn decreases chances of getting hacked. Using hobby grade stuff is a very bad idea. There are many more things that would go into designing Military grade UAV but Im sure you would know about it since you are working on it!

And Im more scared now since a defense contractor(?) for forces is asking such questions on a public forum Tongue Feel so bad for the forces and wonder where they are heading Head Scratching
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 01:26:21 PM »
technotronicsindia
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Hmm ,
see we all learn and learning new technical things is never an harm . its for my knowledge .there are other techies in our company some of them were working with Boeing etc in past . its for my pure knowledge .
Dude n really your heart is weak !! get it check Tongue 
just kidding Tongue

Well you are right , all drones are hackable . I came across this article but people have commented even its not safe :http://www.rockwellcollins.com/sitecore/content/Data/Products/Navigation_and_Guidance/GPS_Devices/Micro_GPS_Receiver_Application_Module.aspx

« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 10:23:55 PM by technotronicsindia » Logged
 

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