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« on: May 22, 2011, 01:30:04 AM »
abhay
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Hello friends,
                I had been althroughout lucknow for ether, but i could never get it. Im keenly interested in diesels. So, it may seem to be a madness, but i want to run a diesel without ether. Or find some alternatives to run such engines without ether. I have read all threads about diesels on this forum, and somewhere at a place i read that "diesels can run without ether when they get heated up".This point made my mind.

Secondly, calorific value of kerosene is nearly double of glow. So i think if a diesel could be converted to run on ratio 2:1(kero:castor), it will yield much more power i guess.

               Coming to the point, i need a diesel engine lesser or upto 3.2cc , preferably used ones. I want to make few conversions on it, so little damaged engines with good compression and inact crankshaft will also do.

Regards,
Abhay
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 02:03:44 PM »
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Diesel Gurus!!  please help
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 08:23:13 PM »
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you can use a diesel engine without ether but you need to heat is up a lot so that the kerosens can ignite..... to get  lower ignition point we use ether...

i have posted here

http://www.rcindia.org/fuel-and-engines/disel-fuel/msg54975/#msg54975

its very difficult to start an engine without ether....

you can get one easily at a local chemical supplier (to collages).... u can call it DI-ETHYL-ETHER ( chemical formula : C2H5-O-C2H5 or C4H10O
 Salute Salute Salute Salute

any help needed you can call on the below no......
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 12:13:16 AM »
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Thanks RC Vish, but here point is, i am unable to obtain it. I found it on  chemistry lab equipment shop, but they refuse to give without proper documentation. I wonder why?

Once i had taken Potassium nitrate, and sulphur from same shop at same time. I told them that i am making bomb >Cheesy. The shopkeeper(lady) smiled,and i got it with no issues.

Why there is issue with ether  Head Scratching Head Scratching . I told them that i will run an engine.
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 08:28:07 AM »
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Why dont you get anaesthetic ether... Ether used for giving anaesthesia from a medical supply shop... preferably from a medical shop found in small private hospitals.

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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 08:37:11 AM »
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Hello Abhay,

It is great to know that you are keen on diesels.

For the ether please contact Mr. Ravi Kumar Gupta, he is aeromodelling instructor at lucknow NCC & flying diesels regularly in their  NCC. His cell no. is 9889816016. If you do not know him give him my reference, he will definately help you.  

Secondly, you want to run the engine only on Kerosene/ Castor oil Mix, there is a problem that these two do not mix in each other. try mixing them & then leave it for 4-5 minutes you will see both of them saperated (you will see two different layers of them). Both of them are soluble in Ether, so this also makes Ether to be added in the fuel. You can go for some other lubricant (Petroleum oil beasd)  that might solve the thing.

Anyways ALL THE BEST FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO TRY. Also please intimate me & forum whatever result you get.

Many Thanks & Regards,
Vivek Sharma
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 11:48:25 PM »
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Thanks people. But first of all let me get some diesel engine atleast. Once i had a deal with amir sir on this forum, but i did not responded, coming to know that its not throttle controlled..

@ Vivek Sharma sir, ill talk to Ravi Sir. Previously i had misconcepts regarding him(but never discussed openly), but its all clear. He is not the guy i thought. He is really helpful, but busy too. I met him only once. 


Diesel owners!!!!...
Please feel free to make offers if anyone has any in spare.. or willing to sacrifice it for experiments Giggle.
Thanks
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 08:06:46 AM »
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why not buy a new one will hardly cost you some where 3500....

or i will check i have a spare i guess... will get back to you ...  Salute Salute
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 01:07:54 PM »
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1.I would like to know if amyl nitrate or any other ignition booster for diesels is available.

2.what Mr. vivek sharma said is correct. kerosene and castor don't mix.

3.And Mr. sharma - when will the sharma diesels with ball bearings be available? Not that the present bush bearing ones are bad (they are excellent), but ball bearing ones will be better 25% more power.
regards,
Avijit
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 01:33:15 PM »
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dont know about ignition booster but u can substitute kerosene by ACETONE or normal DIESEL works fine and yields more power

@abhay: no one recommend you a RC (throttle controlled) engine on your RC plane..... the main reason is the sluggish response..... like u give " OPEN THROTTLE " it will open the barrel but the power will increase like "OOOOOOOOOO PPPPPPPPPPP EEEEEEEEEEE NNNNNNNNNNNN" will take 3-4 secs to give required power .... if it is a emergency like aborting landing or avoiding stall... your plane will be down the drain..

the diesels are superb for control lines(without carb) ....  a 2.5cc can turn a 9X6 or a 10X6  at 13-14000 rpm where a .15 glow(2.49cc) can barely turn 8X6 at 9-10000
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 03:17:26 PM »
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Avijit,
R/C Vish is very correct that the throttle response of diesels is not good compared to glows, it really takes 2-3 seconds for comming from idle to full power.

Amyl Nitrate is not easily availible here, but we found a subsitute which really makes these diesels a wonder. It is a diesel (for diesel vichels ) additive from the company ELF. When you add 2-3% of it in the fuel you can increase the kerosene content upto 45% rest both equal.

Now by adding this your engine runs at somewhat low compression (nearly half turn lesser then the normal setting) flawlessly till the last CC of fuel in your tank. It really makes throttle response better (but still not as good as of glow's) & of course as you increase the kerosene you get more power out of it (nearly upto 1000 RPM more).

If you want to try the additive please mail me your postal adderess on info@sharmamodel aero.com I will send the sample of it.

For the ball bearing engines they are expected to be done till the end of this year.

Regards,
vivek
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2011, 05:35:56 PM »
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@RC Vish - Which is thie diesel engine of 2.5cc displacement which can turn a 10x6 prop at 14 K? Would love to lay my hands on one at any cost sir. And using what fuel?
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 05:48:13 PM »
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the K&B ball bearing diesels, Merco... and even Kalper....

i have some old magazines dating back to 1951 where i read this stuff....

i have a experience of 2.5cc running a 9X6 sharma prop at 12000rpm
fuel:
50% kerosene(white, double purified)
30% castor (medicated)
20% ether(di-ethly)

have to start with starter and cannot flip start..!! Salute Salute
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 07:03:03 PM »
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i got a few diesels
 not for sale
6.5 cc irvine schnurle ported Rc diesel
2.5cc BB frog from the 50s and 60s
1.5cc Frog with forward and rear induction 2 separate engines
a davis diesel head for 7.5 cc supertigre engines.
1.5cc TBR PAW.
Aurora and sharma 3.5 and 3.2 cc engines.and k-mills
I also got a 0.5cc Dc dart engine which i am trying to get repaired.
Love diesels,
avijit
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 07:22:25 PM »
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nice collection....!!! Drool Drool Drool
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 10:45:25 PM »
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@ RC wish. I dont want to buy a new engine. Would like to buy a second hand, which will cut the cost upto a large extents.
Cost factor is the only reason Undecided. I merely have any financial support in my hobby from anyone. Sad

Abhay
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« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2011, 01:07:52 PM »
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In response to #12. RC Vish,
Could you please scan and send me the relevant magazine pages or let me know which magazine and which month (including page numbers) so that I could source them?
Per my information K&B never made a 2.5cc diesel neither does MECOA (which produce K&B now) Similarly Kalper never made a diesel of that displacement. And once again all my knolwedge and research on Merco 2.5 cc diesel came to naught.
On second thought could it be that all the engines (especially the Merco and K&B) you refer were converted from glow to diesel? This would make it possible for existance of these engines but rpm's.... I am still skeptical. 
Per my discussions elsewhere with some diesel guru's it appears that a 2.5 cc diesel turning that prop at 14K is not possible.
I have referenced an article from 1957 AM where in  an Enya 15 diesel was reviewed by RH Warring. From the figures it is seen that the engine could swing a 7x6 or an 8x4 to near about 14K. with a 10x4 the rpm is quoted as 8K.  So even if it is a really hot and high revving engine the figures may go up another 2K or so not to 14K.
Would wait to hear from you
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« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2011, 01:11:41 PM »
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Abhay,
The best would be to contact
1. Your local air wing NCC instructor who may give away to you an old broken engine if you are lucky few of them may be used to cannabalise parts to make one complete.
2. Contact Sharma models who may give away an old unused sharma engine to you on a very low cost or maybe even free
3. Contact Aurora in Kolkata for same as 2 above 
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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2011, 03:24:12 PM »
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will surely get you the the copy...!! and it is ED engines i guess not K&B  Head Scratching ( read the magzine 2 years back...) will confirm and get to you ...!!
 Salute Salute
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« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2011, 02:19:16 AM »
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thanks RC wish. Ill talk to Sharma diesels and local ncc wing sqadron. I dont know how to contact Aurora diseal? any contacts.. please help
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2011, 07:28:30 AM »
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i got a diesel spare dont know if it will work..!! pm me your shipping details..!! will send it to u..!!

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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2011, 05:52:43 PM »
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@RC wish
Thank you sir, I have pmd my shipping address..
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2011, 03:28:48 PM »
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@flyingboxcar: sorry i was wrong about the conclusion....(i had read it long back).. Bang Head Bang Head

 MARZ 2.5D turns 8X4 APC at 14,700rpm...!!

abhay,
     you can read these for the time..!!!

http://modelenginenews.org/ad/frog349.html

http://modelenginenews.org/ad/marz.html

http://modelenginenews.org/

PS: the extract (pic) is from the second like..!!! Salute Salute

Capture.jpg
Re: RC diesel engine for RnD purpose
* Capture.jpg (163.7 KB, 698x522 - viewed 368 times.)
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2011, 06:58:39 PM »
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thanks RC wish. Ill talk to Sharma diesels and local ncc wing sqadron. I dont know how to contact Aurora diseal? any contacts.. please help
Dont' bother about this source. The contact is hobby centre at Kolkata- the original mecca of indian aeromodelling. I have got a fair number of old/reconditioned deisels from Rishi.
regards,
Avijit
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« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2011, 01:27:26 AM »
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Never mind R/C Vish. It happens to all of us. More to me than you, more the gray hairs higher are the chances ;-)   
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« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2011, 06:29:13 PM »
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Amyl Nitrate is not easily availible here, but we found a subsitute which really makes these diesels a wonder. It is a diesel (for diesel vichels ) additive from the company ELF. When you add 2-3% of it in the fuel you can increase the kerosene content upto 45% rest both equal.
...
If you want to try the additive please mail me your postal adderess on info@sharmamodel aero.com I will send the sample of it.

Dear Mr. Vivek,
Thanks for sending me the Elf sample or should i say a whole years supply- free of cost.
Used it yesterday on a frog 2.5 BB on a skybee with an 8x6 sharma prop.
Flew great for 3 sorties.
Then the plane crashed due do an unrelated mechanical failure and the engine mount broke.
Great stuff this elf additive. the engine ran smooth even when there were a few bubbles in the line.
I added about 2 % to my regular diesel fuel(33% castor, 33%ether, and 33% kerosene)
Great smooth runs. I will try 45% kerosene with 25% castor oil next time.
Once i repair the model, i will do rpm studies with fuel with and without the addditive.
Problem is once you have a well tuned diesel running and inhale the aroma- just can't resist flying the bird- to hell with all the studies etc.
No point posting a video here. even if one captures the sound; a diesel isn't a diesel without the smell.
Vivek sir, WHEN ARE THE BB SHARMA DIESELS COMING. I would be honoured to buy a prototype as soon as it is available and give you all the feedback.
regards
avijit
Could you stock the elf additive so that we can buy it from you.
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2011, 08:05:15 AM »
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Why dont you get anaesthetic ether... Ether used for giving anaesthesia from a medical supply shop... preferably from a medical shop found in small private hospitals.


Ether is no longer used for giving anaesthesia nowadays. too explosive.
But it is still used in hospitals asa solvent to remove plaster stains etc. Anaesthtic ether or Solvent ether but not PETROLEUM ether is easily available in lab/ chemical supply shops or go to a hospital and try and buy some. You could even order it through your local pharmacy- it may not be in ready stock
Avijit
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 11:14:05 AM »
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Got the engine delivered at my place 2 days back.. I was out of town, so couldnt reply....

Engine is good,though lacking some parts, but got what i wanted...   Salute
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« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2011, 11:57:57 PM »
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hi '
monu
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2011, 01:09:24 PM »
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Got the engine delivered at my place 2 days back.. I was out of town, so couldnt reply....
Where did you get the engine from. What engine is it
avijit
Engine is good,though lacking some parts, but got what i wanted...   Salute
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« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2011, 01:10:42 PM »
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he actually wanted to pm me that.... ( he did )  Salute
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