Quote from: sansjunk on August 29, 2018, 08:32:18 PM

Quote from: flyingboxcar on August 29, 2018, 07:44:57 PM
There will be a different set of regulation for Model aircraft's. People are involved and talking to Govt rule making setup. Timeline is anyone's guess.
Hope that clarifies 

Ah! A silver lining in the draconian rules. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Also does this mean the blanket ban stays till rules for model aircraft is out?

Regarding the blanket ban, Yes! that order is not rescinded. Further even this CAR comes into effect only from Dec 2018. So assuming that one meets all the conditions and wants to fly a RPA above the Micro category above 50 feet you can legally do so in a approved area only after the CAR comes into effect.   

Quote from: taksh on August 29, 2018, 07:26:41 AM
Who will pay fees of Rs.25000 or Rs.10000?
In rc hobby, we always try to get cheap products because of your budget and mostly beginner always buy cheap items. So, how hobbyist will pay Rs.25000 or Rs.10000.
For me, Drone is just a like flying thing. Drone is just a Quadcopter or multi rotor.Who wants to lose expensive thing?
We all become law breaker because of our government rules.
"We're hobbyists not criminals"

The big corporate and manufacturing concerns that have been lobbying will easily pay. The current CAR is for RPA's. That's where the big money is and what the big boys are interested in.
This CAR is not for you or I hobbyists

"A model aircraft is an UAS that is not a RPA or autonomous aircraft"


the above is your wording or official definition that is documented ?

if official then can easily be appealed on the basic premise that "definition" is what an object
"is" and  not what it is "not"


if your wording - then it has the same locus standi as the others

I gave what I read from the language of the document.
Rest is for the rest to interpret.
I have no more to say in this regard other than, this CAR is not for Aeromodelling in traditional sense

As far as I read and understand, it says that

1.1 Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA), autonomous aircraft and model aircraft are various sub-sets of unmanned aircraft. Unmanned aircraft system (UAS) is an aircraft and its associated elements, which are operated with no pilot on board.

Meaning,

RPA's, Autonomous aircraft and model aircraft are different things which fall under a set called UAS. Technically speaking they all mean the same. But RPA's are mostly used in Military, Navy, Army, Air Force,etc., what not.

But here in the CAR, it identifies it as separate things clearly. This particular CAR is for RPA's and not for autonomous aircraft or model aircraft. We need to wait until they release the new ones.

Fingers crossed.

If I may ask what's the source of this picture Sir.

Quote from: VTOLkarthik on August 30, 2018, 02:13:23 AM
As far as I read and understand, it says that

1.1 Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA), autonomous aircraft and model aircraft are various sub-sets of unmanned aircraft. Unmanned aircraft system (UAS) is an aircraft and its associated elements, which are operated with no pilot on board.

Meaning,

RPA's, Autonomous aircraft and model aircraft are different things which fall under a set called UAS. Technically speaking they all mean the same. But RPA's are mostly used in Military, Navy, Army, Air Force,etc., what not.

But here in the CAR, it identifies it as separate things clearly. This particular CAR is for RPA's and not for autonomous aircraft or model aircraft. We need to wait until they release the new ones.

Fingers crossed.

As per what you are saying RPA's refer mainly to the defence and/or Govt Organisations. If that was the case, then there was no requirement to include "individual(s)" as mentioned in the CAR. Also, "C" in CAR refers to the Civil part. Hence I don't think there will be anymore rule for the hobbyist, but there will be several iterations of this CAR, as happens with all law and order, they evolve over time.

For Post #55 and #56

As I said in the first line, "As far as I read and understand"

It is purely my understanding and my representation of the picture from what was said in the para1.1

Whatever the end of this discussion will be, nothing going to happen until unless we work in mass to write to the public grievance cell. Duties mentioned in the Article 51(H) of Indian Constitution to develop the scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform give us total freedom to use our skills to research, recreate, invent. This clause helps us a lot.
The reason I mentioning here about PG cell is my past. I am an Amateur Radio Operator, and a few years back we faced a lot of trouble getting ourself cleared from Intelligence Bureau clearance for getting a license. What we did was massively putting grievances and RTI to the ministry asking for the various doubts on repetitive manner. The rules were there from pre-independence era to stop Indians to get a license.
For the info of you guys, the WPC wing of Communication Ministry was so busy with our RTIs and PGs that, all the work it had to do in office was replying to each and other RTI or complaint. Finally, they gave up and amended the rules to the fact that no terrorist or Naxal going to apply for a license if they have to operate illegally.
What I did today morning was the same. I put a complaint in PG cell to Civil Aviation ministry and now I want those who really believe me or knows what happened in Amateur Radio Hobby in India in last few years should fill their grievance. Later on, we can file RTI if they close our grievance without any solution.
Let's have it. Let's flood the ministry of Civil aviation with a lot of grievances, followed by RTI after 1 month.

A most excellent post .....


How does one lodge a grievance ?..

https://pgportal.gov.in 

Quote from: gurudattapanda on September 01, 2018, 04:01:58 PM
What I did today morning was the same. I put a complaint in PG cell to Civil Aviation ministry and now I want those who really believe me or knows what happened in Amateur Radio Hobby in India in last few years should fill their grievance. Later on, we can file RTI if they close our grievance without any solution.
Let's have it. Let's flood the ministry of Civil aviation with a lot of grievances, followed by RTI after 1 month.

Excellent post and exactly what we should do to get things corrected.

To save your time in drafting the grievance. I am hereby pasting my grievance that was exactly put on PG portal. You can use it as it is or adds, subtracts whatever you like, dislike. My aim is to have a less painful or easier licensing process for Non-Commercial Amateur, Hobby and recreational flyers and modelers.

Copy and paste from here-
Regarding Requirements for Operation of Civil Remotely Piloted Aircraft System (RPAS).
There is no mention about Recreational Aeromodellers who make their own Aeromodel of Fixed and Rotating Wing in the rule.  It will be difficult for such flyers to register as the model name and the serial number of such self-made drones and planes will not be available.
The Hobby of Recreational flying in India is more than four-decade-old and uses from fueled engines to BLDC motors, transmitters receivers. There is no mention about importing of such goods and approval from DGCA as Customs stopping them citing the DGCA approval.
The aeromodelling and recreational flying in uncontrolled flying zones have not been defined in the rules which will be in effect from December 1, 2019.
The use of Spotters in case of Visible Line of Sight flying is also not mentioned in the said rules.
No Official or spokesperson has been notified in the rule to clarify the doubts over Phone or mail id for persons interested to clarify some doubts besides the issues mentioned in the rules.
Most importantly, the 250 Grams for Nano segment of Drones is only applicable to toy drones available from Chinese manufacturers and not Indian aero-modelers who can't make drones in 250 Grams limit. So increasing the weight limit for Nano segment for noncommercial aeromodelling is highly solicited.

Please resolve the issues in order to avail the Aeromodelling community a freedom to design, fly and make some inventions which is ultimately going to help Make In India policy of Current Govt and also will support the Fundamental Duties mentioned in the Article 51(H) of Indian Constitution  to develop the scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform.

This is a CAR for Civil Drones. Not forAeromodellers. 100% confirmed. CAR for regulating aeromodelling will follow. Will take time..

Regards
Laxman Suthar
Treasurer of AMAI

Made a video to summarise the rules

Quote from: laxmansuthar on September 03, 2018, 01:24:19 PM
This is a CAR for Civil Drones. Not forAeromodellers. 100% confirmed. CAR for regulating aeromodelling will follow. Will take time..

Regards
Laxman Suthar
Treasurer of AMAI

Till those separate set of rules come out. Everything falls under Car and has to be followed by aeromodelers too.

Good to hear that. Please also guide as to what steps we all need to take, to represent the Aeromodelling community.

Quote from: laxmansuthar on September 03, 2018, 01:24:19 PM
This is a CAR for Civil Drones. Not forAeromodellers. 100% confirmed. CAR for regulating aeromodelling will follow. Will take time..

Regards
Laxman Suthar
Treasurer of AMAI

Quote from: laxmansuthar on September 03, 2018, 01:24:19 PM
This is a CAR for Civil Drones. Not forAeromodellers. 100% confirmed. CAR for regulating aeromodelling will follow. Will take time..

That's a reassuring silver lining in the Dark Clouds.   

Quote from: ambattuhari on August 29, 2018, 08:16:24 PM

Quote from: flyingboxcar on August 29, 2018, 07:46:25 PM

Quote from: pravesh736 on August 29, 2018, 03:10:35 PM
Yes, it does, people will decipher however they want.  
Everything controlled in air by remote is a rpa.

Absolutely not. That would be UAS as per DGCA/ICAO  

Sir, can you please explain what a Model Aircraft is ?

@ KK Iyer Sir,
Won't a" Model Aircraft" with power, & controlled by a Tx- Rx , come under Remotely Piloted Aircraft ?
Sir, have you seen some videos posted here ?
Under 2 kg , need UIN ??
Please explain,
DRONE .......? (autonomous flying capability)
Quadcopter ....?(RPA) ?
And a fixed wing can carry MORE "disaster" ........? !!!!!



Feels like a ----  among ----- !

I expect (and hope) that Laxmansuthar sir's post is the correct status, ie, that separate rules for model aircraft (fixed wing) are likely.
Whether helis will be considered model aircraft or drones is not known. This needs to be addressed.

Pending separate fixed wing rules, it would only be safe to assume that these 'drone' regulations apply to model airplanes too. I doubt if one could claim immunity for a jet or 50+cc airplanes. Even a 40 size trainer typically weighs ~2.5kg, ie, over the 2kg limit.

Probably the only way to fly is as part of an educational institution, or at a private field.

Fortunately of some of us, one of the local jet flyers has a private field, with an air conditioned hangar(!)
Another has a private field from where he operates paramotor joyrides.
A third owns a cricket ground...
All are well away from populated areas.

For the last 2 months, no flying, as these fields are inaccessible without an SUV during monsoon.

We will see how things develop once the rains stop.

Thank you, Iyer sir.
One more thing,  is it permissible to fly over a private property ( ie a large estate)?

Quote from: ambattuhari on September 04, 2018, 09:04:34 PM
Thank you, Iyer sir.
One more thing,  is it permissible to fly over a private property ( ie a large estate)?

I sure hope so!

Hobbyist

I am not a hobbit @newpg202
Are you??

Quote from: Mehul Anand on November 17, 2018, 03:36:15 PM
I am not a hobbit @newpg202
Are you??

No not me! Thanks for reading my post!

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