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« on: March 03, 2010, 06:28:11 PM »
izmile
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Indeed a sad news..  Sad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/8547018.stm?ls

-Ismail
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 06:46:46 PM »
anwar
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Sad it is Sad

Wonder what went wrong, and why they were not able to eject.
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 08:08:51 PM »
sahilkit
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according to the info i got there was only one body found in the crash and one of the pilots ejected

but its sad news  Angry
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 08:22:52 PM »
izmile
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Wonder what went wrong, and why they were not able to eject.

Apart from equipment failure, there is a high probably the pilot was trying to steer the aircraft away from populated area... by that time it would have been too late to eject.

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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 11:04:01 PM »
vinay
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AAAARRRGG! God damned Indian Planes Angry! I think if India enters war with some far away countries, half of the planes would be crashed not in the war zone but on the way to the war zone. Thumbs Down

God alone knows how many brave pilots have to give their lives to our country planes.
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 11:27:03 PM »
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AAAARRRGG! God damned Indian Planes Angry! I think if India enters war with some far away countries, half of the planes would be crashed not in the war zone but on the way to the war zone. Thumbs Down

God alone knows how many brave pilots have to give their lives to our country planes.

That is one emotional/sentimental/heat of the moment comment about our Air Force / Military Aircraft. The Indian Air force is held in high esteem by recognised authorities, internationally.  Ever cared to find out why these aircraft crash in the hands of new pilots? (I don't know how experienced these pilots were. However, Vinay is obviously referring to the past MiG 21 disasters. These pilots were obviously experienced if they were a part of an aerobatics team.) Would you be able to drive a Formula One car immediately after  you learnt how to drive in an old Ambassador?

Don't blame our Pilots or the Ground Crew and don't blame our aircraft - blame the system. I am immensely proud of the Indian Air Force and the people who power it. Can't say the same about the politicians who control it, from the roots. I am NOT asking you to be immersed in patriotic zeal, just see the truth, be realistic.

My thoughts are now with the Pilots families who are mourning alone.

Humbly,

VC
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 11:32:59 PM »
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AFAIK, I have heard/read only bad things about our planes!  Tongue No wonder I/Many/Most I know make such comments. Discuss

Let the black box come out, will know the issue for sure.
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 11:42:21 PM »
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Not your fault, it is the PRESS that decides what we know/read. At your age, I would also have reacted the same way.
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 10:51:25 AM »
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Quote
Let the black box come out, will know the issue for sure.

Black boxes are only used in civilian aircraft, to the best of my knowledge.
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 10:58:45 AM »
vinay
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Quote
Let the black box come out, will know the issue for sure.

Black boxes are only used in civilian aircraft, to the best of my knowledge.

Is it? I thought they were used in all aircrafts excluding glider kinda planes.
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 11:09:54 AM »
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I have confirmed that these units, correctly described as FDRs (Flight Data Recorders) are mandatory only on civilian aircraft. Standards have been laid down by ICAO (International CIVIL Aviation Organisation), EUROCAE (European Organisation for CIVIL Equipment) etc.
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 01:12:18 PM »
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I have a friend who is Lt Cdr in the SU-30 squadron  stationed at Pune. He told me that the MIG-21 are called 'Flying Coffins' in the pilots's grape wine due to their high failure rate and whenever a pilot moves out of MIG-21 squadron  to some other aircraft, their friends throw a 'Re-birth' party.

Much has been told about the sub-standard parts being used in the aging MIG in the movie Rang De Basanti. My friend stands by that, but as one knows, they cannot talk officially over these topics, specially when financial implication are attached it. My family friend have suffered loss of their elder son in such a crash which was purely due to engine failure. As usual, it was forgotten like a day to day incident. Till some time back one MIG-21 used to crash ever 3 month, number has come down in recent times due to reduced sorties.
The country should value its pilots and use planes which are more appropriate for rookies in training. MIG-21 are as unstable (and thus highly maneuverable) like F-16, sans the flight computer (Fly by wire). They should be given simpler trainer jet like AJT etc.

Nevertheless late S.K. Maurya was  a commander, having no less than 12-15 years and 1000's hours flying experience. He wasn't a new pilot. They had full 5-6 seconds to eject, but both tried to take the plane to open are to several civilians lives and laid their lives instead. To me it either looks like a engine or hydrolic failure as they failed to come out of the bottom of the loop, a very regulation maneuver, and went straight nose dive.  They should be awarded for their gallantry, though in peaceful times. We should salute our pilots to be at vigil even with such unreliable and life taking machines.

Funny still, the self proclaied Messiah, the media, was asking why not such air shows be stopped  Grin Roll Eyes Shocked .


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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 01:31:31 PM »
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It is  a sad result .

I don't think  we have the competence  nor the  ability nor the  required qualifications  to pass judgments  about the  Airforce here .

We are a RC Model Forum  and I would suggest we stick to that .

Loose talk of the kind above  is avoidable  in the best interest of all of us .

Anwar I think you need to moderate and do the needful , the forum is open to all   so such  discussion  and talk  about the countries defenses needs to  edited to be appropriate  how ever open a forum you are .

Ujjwal might have his  opinion based on his own experiences  which I have  no issue with but  they need to be moderated for the interest of the forum

Sai
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 01:43:20 PM »
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Sai, Anwar,
In my opinion the thread should not be moderated as nothing against India or IAF was said, or something which is not all around us in media.
Agree we are a RC model forum, but we are all aviation enthusiasts . Let us share and talk about anything that happens.
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 01:58:18 PM »
ujjwaana
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I guess we are not in China or something where they have ban on Google Search as well. As Gaurav says, I have said nothing which has NOT been accused against the Govt. And I am not blindly saying this on crack pot media reports. I have lost a family friend when I was aspiring to become a pilot back in childhood.  I have more reason not to support govt version as I have personal testimony of my very own pilot friend.

This is chatter zone. As members we are free to talk topics which are at least close to RC heart in us. I see unseen planes in India like Eurofighter Typhoon, Gripen, MIG35 and F-18 Hornet, etc being test flown at HAL airport here, touching down just 500m from my office window. I guess I won't be wrong if I post self taken pics on this forum! Would I ? Areas around HAL airport is not like 'Area 51'. Pics of these planes taken from private property is completely legal.
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 02:30:58 PM »
anwar
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As long as we continue to appreciate the sacrifices that have been made by our forces (and the sacrifices that are ongoing), I see nothing wrong with anyone saying we need to better equip our forces, and put more thought and efforts into maximizing their safety.  It is the least we can do as a nation in return for their efforts.  Remember that folks are blaming the system, not the forces.  I hope it is looked up on as constructive criticism.

I am not sure I agree with discounting the planes that are built indigenously.  Many astronauts paid with their lives before man stepped on the moon, and the F-16 was not the very first fighter.  As long as the "system" continually works towards improvement (which leads to better safety), this is a natural price to pay.

I see this discussion as the wholehearted support, appreciation and love extended by regular citizens to the brave folks who put their lives on the line to ensure their safety.
 
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 04:06:50 PM »
izmile
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Nothing worng in expressing your views as long as it doesn't hurt others.

But it should be noted that our Indian Airforce is one of the best and they are very well recogonized worldwide.
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2010, 05:10:57 PM »
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I am still not satisfied that our Indian planes are maintained all that well! Arguement
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2010, 06:25:21 AM »
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Mmmm. This is INDIA, we are INDIANS. Am sure that we are the soldiers at heart. So, our soldiers no doubt dont care to loose their lives by giving priority to civilians in the cases like this.

Vinay is right. Our planes are doubtful. But that is solely due to the POLITICAL ADMINISTRATIVE SYSTEM we have. The things are too rude sometimes, like, it is usual and no wonder if even the pilot knows that the plane is not in good condition to take off, before he can board that plane, but he will put himself into the hell as ordered.

This is INDIA, and we are the INDIANS, having the GREATEST HEARTS on the planet. SOLDIERS AMAR RAAHEIN  Salute
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2010, 10:32:00 AM »
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Well, upgrading the planes or even maintaining it costs money..... India has a population of 1.2+ billion out of which less than 5% are actually tax payers. So where does the money come from (apart from indirect taxes)?

Given the huge population, I am sure the govt also has a million problems and different things to concentrate on. So just blaming the system does not get us anywhere.

The problem is acute - for example the flying coffins Mig-21 (Fishbed) have long been the mainstay of our air defence system. However, of late there is a serious lack of spares which has often resulted in canibalization to get spares.

I read somewhere that Min of Def is on track for total revamp of the air defence system which ammounts to approx 20,000 Cr USD and from what I know, likes of Lockeed Martin and the Sukhois of the world are bending back to get hold of this pie. We are actually eying the likes of F35 or T50.

However, that is a huge sum and it will take a while to mobilize the same.


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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2010, 11:29:17 AM »
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+1 Pankaj. People here in Bangalore already witness likes of F-18 hornets, Typhoon, Gripen, MIG-35 etc which are currently been evaluated by IAF/HAL as their future options. With Russia going dust, its not long that latest SU-30s face same spare/QA issue like MIGs.
These companies are bidding for the same jumbo jet tender. Its marvel to see such Supreme Machines.
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